We’ve been talking about nakedness. Which got me thinking…we often use the argument of our body types to show that homosexuality is wrong. We point to the fact that our “parts” are different. Many of us are parents. Children are really such simple creatures. How many of you that are parents remember when one of your kids pointed to their sexual parts and asked “what is this” or something along those lines? I remember my own daughter asking me “why she had an extra hole”. I wonder what people who have same sex attractions would say. That “hole” has two purposes, and two purposes only. To receive the mans sperm, and to serve as the “way out” for babies in the process of being born. What do they tell their kids when they ask what their penis is for? Yes, it is used to urinate, but it is also used for something else. It’s purpose, as we have explained to our children, is to “plant a seed” inside of a woman, and create a new life.
It’s obvious to any five year old girl that there are parts there that she doesn’t use. It’s not so obvious to us. We use these parts for the wrong reasons. We
thwart the very thing they were created to do. Even if you are an atheist, you cannot deny that these parts, whether created or evolved, still serve a purpose. A purpose that we seem hell bound to eradicate. Which renders these parts virtually pointless. How sad.
When God created us man and woman, He created us to share our bodies in a very special, very unique way. If used properly, the most amazing thing happens. A new life is created. When a man donates himself to a woman, and a woman receives his gift, a “third” is created. Something that wasn’t there before, suddenly is.
I wonder how awed Adam and Eve were, when they realized that sharing their bodies, resulted 9 months later, in a new life. Were they shocked? Did they know this would happen? Were they thrilled?
We have learned, throughout these weeks that our intimate, sexual acts, committed between a husband and a wife, are meant to image God. At the last supper, we heard God Himself, say to His friends, and to all of us, “THIS IS MY BODY, GIVEN UP FOR YOU”. Nowhere, is it clearer, what is meant by these words, than when a man and woman unite in the marriage bed. The husband says to the wife “This is my body, I give it to you” and the husband in turn says “This is my body, I give it to you”…I wish those words were in the marriage vows.
Somehow “THIS IS MY BODY, GIVEN UP FOR YOU” has turned into “This is my body…keep your hands off of it…you can’t tell ME what to do with my body…this is my body and I will share some of it, but not all of it…” How far from the reality of the those words we have come.
Until we recognize that our bodies are physical expressions of our souls, until we fully understand their purpose, we will never understand the secret of life. On page 29 we read:
If you are looking for the meaning of life, according to John Paul II, it’s impressed right in your body–in your sexuality! The purpose of life is to love as God loves, and this is what your body as a man or woman calls you to. A man’s body doesn’t make sense by itself. Nor does a woman’s body. But seen in light of each other, sexual difference reveals the unmistakable plan of God that man and woman are meant to be a “gift” to one another.
To give ourselves completely, to hold nothing back, to express our love in a physical way, to unite metaphysically by uniting physically…this is what God intended. We must give ourselves completely to God. To hold back even 2% is to lose. To have a relationship with God you must give Him your ALL. Anything less, and you are not in true union with Him. The same holds true of man and woman. To hold back anything in the relationship, is to shortchange the relationship. To cheapen it. You are not in true union, unless you are giving your ALL. Totus Tuus. Totally Yours.

I wish those words were in the marriage vows.
When the sacrament is celebrated in the context of the Mass, those words are present. What we need to do is a better job of helping couples understand the relationship between Marriage and Eucharist. One of my favorite stories from Christopher West is the one about his father-in- law sobbing at Mass the day following his wedding and explaining to his new bride that now he understood those words, “This is my body, given for you.”
In fact it was the compare and contrast of the use of these words in the Dana song, “This Is My Body”, which I heard at a retreat, that finally moved me to Sacramental Reconciliation with regard to my abortions.
Along with God saying “Let there be…”, these are the most powerful words ever uttered in all of history.
to unite metaphysically by uniting physically…this is what God intended.
This is beautifully stated, MK.
Voice 1
This is my body
An empty shell without you now
I see you in the face of ev’ry child
This is my body
But you are always in my heart
Always in my mind
If I could choose again
There’d be no choice for me but you
I’d do what I must do
I’d even give my life for you
This is my body
You cannot tell me what to do
It’s not up to you, I will decide
This is my body
And I alone will choose
If this life within me lives or dies
This is my body
I’ll do what I must do
This is my life
I will not sacrifice my life for you
Voice 2
This is my body
Given up for you
That you might live eternally
This is my body
Let thy will be done, not mine
Groping at the breast, crushed as the wine
This is my body
I do what I must do
I give my life
A sacrifice of love for you
Together
This is my body
Voice 2
Given up for you
Voice 1
I have the right to choose
I have so much to lose
Don’t tell me what to do
Together
This is my body
Voice 2
Let thy will be done, not mine
Voice 1
If I could choose again
There’d be no choice for me but you
I don’t know you
Together
I’ll never hold you
Voice 1
You’re always there
Awake or in my dreams
Together
I give my life
Voice 1
This is my life
I cannot sacrifice my life
Voice 2
I would do anything
Together
For you
Voice 1
I can see no other way
The choice is me or you
Voice 2
Father, forgive them
They know not what they do
Voice 1
How can I forgive myself
For what I’ve done to you
Voice 3
My wounds have set you free
Do this in remembrance of me
This is my body
Given up for you
That you might live eternally
This is my body
Let thy will be done, not mine
Groping at the breast, crushed as the wine
All
This my body
I do what I must do
Voice 3
I give my life
A sacrifice of love
Voices 1 & 2
I give a sacrifice
All
For you
Voice 1
I give my life
I give my life, a sacrifice
All
A sacrifice of love for you
If a child asked me “Why do I have an extra hole?” I would say, “None of your business.”
Jess,
Really? Why?
Not “A” child Jess. Your child.
DeeL,
I love Dana. I love the song “We Are One Body”
We are one body, one body in Christ.
And we do not stand alone.
We are one body, one body in Christ.
And he came that we might have Life.
The song you posted is beautiful. I’ve never heard it. But the words are awesome.
I’m so happy you were there that day, heard them, and that they melted your heart. Instead of running from the pain, you ran to the healing. What a beautiful testimony to His Mercy, and your trust.
DeeL,
I just put another post up that ties into this one…check it out.
I would tell my child what sex is and where babies come from but I wouldn’t get into orgasms and homosexuality (any sexuality) and stuff like that until they were older.
Jess,
That’s the point. We would tell the child the most obvious answer. That those parts are meant to create, nourish, grow and birth babies. All the stuff you’d wait to tell him? You’d wait, because those things are not the primary functions of those body parts. They are in fact, perversions of the natural functions of those body parts. You wouldn’t tell them, because then you’d have to explain how and why some people use them for reasons other than their intended ones, and a child is too young to understand this. Yet they, at almost any age, are able to understand the primary reason for them.
There is no shame in Truth, and so you’d feel perfectly comfortable talking to, even a small child, about them.
MK,
Thanks. I am too. It was a pretty amazing experience. I felt so intensely in the middle of it, and at the same time like I was having an out of body experience. So much pain and so much freedom in the same moment.
Dana’s stuff is wonderful. I hope you hear this one someday, it’s really powerful.
What about orgasm MK? Orgasms help to move the sperm from the vagina to uterus, it’s useful not perverted but would you tell a five year old about it? Would you tell a five year old about foreplay? That’s also a very useful part of reproduction.
First off, I’m catching up. I’m on page 19! Yeah! (or maybe not!).
Until we recognize that our bodies are physical expressions of our souls, until we fully understand their purpose, we will never understand the secret of life.
I have been thinking alot about this for quite some time now.
I often like to wonder at how a person’s body might mirror their soul. For example, there is a very large young woman where I work. She is probably 6 ft tall, about 180lbs. She has a beautiful smile and is wonderfully friendly and happy. To me, her body mirrors some of the qualities that her soul has – her openness to people, her cheerful disposition. I’m not sure I can quite explain what I mean here.
I guess to me her large body mirrors the largeness of her soul.
Does this make any sense to anyone, or am I just being “flaky” here!!???
DeeL,
Have you ever seen when they play a short video to that song on EWTN? I cry every time I see it.
Jess,
I didn’t know that about orgasm, that’s really interesting. That actually supports that the unitive and reproductive aspects of the sex act are ordered to each other.
I don’t think MK was saying orgasm is perverted. Having sex for the sole purpose of achieving orgasm is a perversion of the created purpose of sex. As has been pointed out, it should never be an either/or (orgasm/offspring) it should always be a both/and (pleasure with an openness to children.
Well Patricia I’m 5’4, 130lbs, size 6 with an A cup and a “J-Lo booty” (according to my family, which is rather embarrassing). What does that say about my soul?
Again DeeL what about the infertile? Should a married couple cease having sex if the woman reaches menopause?
Bobby,
I have not seen the video. I’m not sure my heart could take it.
Jess,
I think you need to go back to last week’s thread. That was explained pretty thoroughly.
It is only when we interfere with fertility that it becomes a perversion.
Well is homosexuality interfering with fertility any more then abstinence?
Abstinence does not render the sex act infertile. There is no sex act with abstinence.
Homosexual union is an unnatural (the body is not ordered to it)act which is rendered sterile by its very disorderedness.
What are you not understanding about the difference?
I don’t know what I’m talking about. I just don’t think there is anything wrong with a homosexual relationship and I don’t think God has a problem with it either.
Bobby, MK,…..
Am I saying something incorrectly here? We went through all of this last week and we seem to be back at the exact same place.
I’m sorry if I wasted your time DeeL. I really don’t think there is anything wrong with homosexuality, but then again I don’t think there is anything wrong with condoms, erotic literature, etc…
Jess,
I never consider answering anyone’s questions a waste of my time. I would think it would be more a waste of your time to be asking questions you have no interest in learning the answers to.
You wrote: “Somehow “THIS IS MY BODY, GIVEN UP FOR YOU” has turned into “This is my body…keep your hands off of it…you can’t tell ME what to do with my body…this is my body and I will share some of it, but not all of it…” How far from the reality of the those words we have come.”
No, it hasn’t “turned into” the other. The two are spoken by different speakers. The first is spoken by Jesus C.; the second by ordinary women. And the whole point about JC was He sacrificed His body WILLINGLY. NOT in order to obey the law.
And I have no problem at all explaining sex (including foreplay) to kids.
I tell them: the pleasure of sex, which you do not know yet, comes from the memory of being helpless and cared-for as a baby, when love from parents equals life.
SoMG,
Wow! Beautiful. So you see sex as gift, a life giving gift? Hmmmmmmm. Where have we heard that before?
DeeL can you link the post where this came up last week? Sorry I don’t remember being a part of it.
Jess,
Sorry, I haven’t a clue how to do the links. It was last week’s Book Club.
Ok I’ll check it out.
Not touching this one…
*wanders away to watch Doctor Who*
Jess,
What about orgasm MK? Orgasms help to move the sperm from the vagina to uterus, it’s useful not perverted but would you tell a five year old about it? Would you tell a five year old about foreplay? That’s also a very useful part of reproduction.
If she asked a question that needed that explanation. The technical description might be over her head, but I wouldn’t be ashamed to tell her, no.
SoMG,
I tell them: the pleasure of sex, which you do not know yet, comes from the memory of being helpless and cared-for as a baby, when love from parents equals life.
That was absolutely beautiful. I’m floored! Wow! Just, Wow!
SoMG,
Yes, of course it is a woman’s prerogative to view her body in any way that she wants. But this is Theology of the Body, and we are discussing what the “right” way to view our bodies is. Jesus, example, is the one to follow if you want to do it “right”….
From a couple of weeks ago…
“Reclaiming an abused phrase, God is entirely “pro-choice”. He gave us freedom in the first place. But some choices negate our vocation to love. Some choices can NEVER bring happiness. We ARE “free” in a sense to “do whatever we want with our bodies,” However, we’re not free to determine whether what we do with our bodies is good or evil. As Adam learned, this is a tree (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil”) from which he cannot eat, lest he die. Therefore, human freedom – “choice” – is fully realized not by inventing good and evil, but by choosing properly between them.” Page 23
Jess,
Here is the post where you yourself asked the same question…and Val and DeeL answered it.
http://www.2secondsfaster.com/archives/2101
You can access ANY book club post by going to the book club link at the top of the page, or just above the comments.
When you go to this post, scroll about halfway down and you’ll see their answers to your infertility question.
DeeL,
Here is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCmLmZDpB4I that they play on EWTN to Dana’s song. Yes, it is a little cheesy, but it really illustrates the contrast in the way the phrase “this is my body” is used.
You mentioned above you might not be able to watch it. There are no aborted babies or anything like that in the video. It’s just very emotional.
Jess –
You’re heart is so huge! It is a wonderful quality and I never want you to loose it!
Aw thanks Valerie Jane : ) You’re wonderful too! And again, what a wonderful site.
And it’s not like I would be ashamed of explaining an orgasm but it would be over their head.
I wonder how awed Adam and Eve were, when they realized that sharing their bodies, resulted 9 months later, in a new life. Were they shocked? Did they know this would happen? Were they thrilled?
I think they KNEW exactly what was going to happen. They were not ignorant. In fact, they understood more perfectly than we can or ever will, that each other was a “person”. They were not distracted by lust, the sexual embrace was perfect union for them.
@Jess: I think your body shows you are a beautiful person!!! (you know good things come in small packages too!)
I just meant that to me, a persons body really does reflect their soul. Take a man who is a sort of handy guy. You know the type, he can fix anything. he’s got the physical ability to do things. To me that reflects a soul that is practical and maybe logical. Not a showy sort of soul, but one who is action.
DeeL and Bobby,
Thanks for mentioning and posting the link to Dana’s song/video. I’ve always loved that song! I can’t think of any better way to express the life-giving sacrifice of motherhood! It would be great if all teens could hear her song and consider its profound meaning.
As an aside (I hope you don’t mind my straying from the topic but still on the subject of motherhood), I have a book called “The Apostolate of Holy Motherhood” which my Mom gave me several years ago. I haven’t finished it so I can’t really explain it, except that it describes apparitions in diary form…. I am wondering if anyone here has heard of it or read it. It can probably be found on the internet. There is no author mentioned. The introduction is by Mark Miravalle, STD, of Franciscan University in Ohio. (I apologize if it has already been discussed in this forum. I haven’t had a chance to read every day.)
Janet,
From what I could find there is an Imprimatur in the front of the book, which means that while it might not be supernatural in origin, there is nothing in it contrary to church teaching.
I won’t be covering it, because it is not an approved apparition. But I will probably be getting the book, as you have peaked my curiosity.
Who knows, I might even change my mind.
I will say this…what little I have read so far, sounds very beautiful. Here is one of her messages, calling us to an apostolate of Motherhood. Asking us to take our vocations of wife and mother very seriously, and to use them to further her work…
“I wish for the Apostolate of Motherhood to begin soon. This will aid in my Triumph because it will include many mothers who will rise to holiness through this means. They will learn to offer up their daily duty in a most efficacious way and help to atone for much of the sin in the world. They will learn to use their time wisely, and it will be well spent in prayer, not superficial or superfluous prayer, but prayer that will pierce the Heart of my Son because of its genuineness and love.
They will love their children and their husbands and their homes above all else except for God and myself, and they will be shining examples to all those around them. Their interest will be in the home, and they will not seek to aspire to anything except perfection in the most noble way. They will put their children far above themselves and all others, and they will love their husbands deeply in a holy Christian love. (My emphasis)
They will love the church and seek to do all for the salvation of souls and My triumph. They will work for peace by their example and prayer, but not through activism which would detract from their vocation to which I am calling them. They must be self-sacrificing examples and models of love and kindness to all whom they meet.” – Blessed Mother to Mariamante: Thurs 5 March 1987 – P33
Oh Janet,
That’s beautiful. I vote that you can stray off topic any time you want, as long as you point us to things like this! I’m in the middle of “Meet Mary” by Mark Miravalle, he’s very good. I’m also reading a collection of essays about The Blessed Mother and The Theology of the Body. Of course today I’ve been immersed in Canon Law with regard to reconciliation and abortion, ha ha. Which glaringly points out that I am falling very short with regard to that second paragraph that MK quoted. Uh oh!:’(
And Bobby,
Thanks for the link and the encouragement. I will check it out.
I have a book called “The Apostolate of Holy Motherhood” which my Mom gave me several years ago. I haven’t finished it so I can’t really explain it, except that it describes apparitions in diary form…. I am wondering if anyone here has heard of it or read it. It can probably be found on the internet. There is no author mentioned. The introduction is by Mark Miravalle, STD, of Franciscan University in Ohio. (I apologize if it has already been discussed in this forum. I haven’t had a chance to read every day.)
Yes Janet, I have read it and reread it. I decided that I would participate in the Apostolate of Holy Motherhood. It sustained me through many troubles I had when my children were small. I believe Mother Theresa supported this work.
I may have mentioned it here or on Jill’s site before.
I don’t think there is anything that is not doctrinally sound.
I feel that Our Lady may very well have appeared to this young mother to help counter the wholesale abandonment going on by western working moms. I know many mothers have to work today, but many work who simply do not have to. And many don’t want to work, but are forced to by their husbands. The latter I saw a lot of when I was a LaLeche League Leader.
MK: yes the book is filled with many interesting passages. Our Lord is supposedly very upset with women and men who have failed in their parental duties and also those who have harmed innocent children.
DeeL: I am wondering if you are reading the same book that Bobby B recommended to me? Can you share the title of the book?
Hi Patricia,
Happy New Year! And by golly, how are you?
The name of the book is The Virgin Mary and The Theology of the Body. It is a collection of essays edited by Donald Calloway and published by Ascension Press.
DeeL:I am doing just fine but freezing my a$$ off (french for “I’m very cold”) here in Canada! It’s in the -20′sC (about 6 below zero) and it’s getting a LITTTLLLE tiring! And we still have our worst month to get through – February. I say, shut everything down until Groundhog day!
Yes that is the book Bobby was reading. I have read reviews and they state some of the essays are very good, a few a little more dry. What sayest thou?
BTW, I really enjoy reading your comments! They are very insightful and provide food for the mind! I hope you are well!
Patricia,
It’s minus 30 wind chill factor here in Chicago! I wish it was a balmy 6! lol
Yeah, I just checked and it’s -15 F.
Patricia-
I hear you about the cold. It’s old already!
I just started the Virgin Mary and TOB book, so I’ll need to get back to you on that. “Mary” is one of the classes I teach for RCIA each year. Two years ago I participated in Christopher West’s Head and Heart Immersion Course and knew I needed to redo my presentation to include TOB, I’m reading this and the Miravalle book as part of that project.
I enjoy your comments also, I wish you would hang out here more. I was following along on Jill’s until her hiatus, but the atmosphere is too negative there. I think you should come play with us!
I was just wondering to MK – we’ve got canon law issues on the Ultimate Sins thread. Don’t you have a friend who is a canon lawyer? Have you been following that one? Got any feedback?
MK –
Didn’t Val tell you, we took the 5:05 flight from O’Hare to Malta yesterday. We’re sipping Limoncello’s and commenting from the shores of the Med ; ) There’s another flight out this afternoon. Quick, pack your bikini!
Malta! my goodness. You must try pastizzi! (my kids are half Maltese!)
DeeL: I hear ya totally about Jill’s site. Oh brother the grief I’ve experienced on there.
My children have told me to leave. My daughters think the people on there are very nasty and just plain trolls. Not to mention the threats I’ve received there. It’s not just negative, it’s creepy too.
It IS much better here. The discussions are calmer and more interesting.
The friend I knew who was a canon lawyer is a priest from another parish. He was a rather liberal fellow years ago, until they sent him to Rome. When I went back to confession to him after he came back from Rome I was pleasantly surprised. I believe he works on our diocesan marriage tribunal.
Temperature is -20C. Yesterday it was -23C when I left for work at 8am.( I want to stick pins in my eyes, it’s sooo cold!)
Bobby,
I watched the video this morning. Stunning and powerful! Thank you for sharing.
Patricia,
Put the pins down. Step away from the sewing box.
Patricia,Put the pins down. Step away from the sewing box.
oookkkaaayyy!
“This is My Body” was inspired through a conversation that Fr. Pavone had with Dana about the comparison between the words “This is My Body” as used by Jesus to give us eternal life, and as used by abortion supporters to defend the taking of life. Fr. Pavone gave Dana the brochure that he had written about this comparison, and suggested that a song should be written to convey this powerful message. Within a few hours, Dana called him back and said that she had the song basically written! After subsequent meetings and sitting together at the piano, Fr. Frank and Dana were satisfied that the finished product would inspire pro-life people worldwide.”
Awesome! I do remember this song. I have a lot of Dana tapes – so that dates me!
didn’t know the above so Iposted it from youtube.
You all are such voracious readers! Where do you find all these great titles, and are you studying towards degrees, or for pleasure?
Have a good day all, and stay warm!!
Quick, pack your bikini!.
Good Lord Woman! I’d terrify the natives.
Would that it were so….Ahhhhhhh…Maaaaaaalta…
*sigh*
Just checked…52 and sunny…
Good Lord Woman! I’d terrify the natives.
Nah. The natives are probably “naked without shame!”
By the way, I’ve got some more stuff for the Ultimate Sin thread, but I’m finishing up lessons with my 11 year old and then I’m heading to Naperville to see my other daughter’s show, so I probably won’t get to it until tomorrow. My deacon friend loves me, ha ha, he barely stepped into his office before I had him on the phone for 45 minutes : )
Janet,
Pleasure for me. One college tuition at a time in my house. But I am considering the Theology of the Body Institute’s 8 course certification program! Of course, at $1000 a class and a week away from home each time, and only one class down, it will probably take me 10 – 15 years to complete it. Oh boy!
Quick, pack your bikini!.
Good Lord Woman! I’d terrify the natives.
_____________________________________
I hear ya, MK.
My story: there’s enough violence in the world without it seeing me in a bikini!
DeeL and Patricia,
lol,lol, and lol.
MK: you would have LOVED to hear the homily today at my parish!!
First of all the readings are soo appropriate:
Reading II
1 Cor 6:13c-15a, 17-20
Brothers and sisters:
The body is not for immorality, but for the Lord,
and the Lord is for the body;
God raised the Lord and will also raise us by his power.
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?
But whoever is joined to the Lord becomes one Spirit with him.
Avoid immorality.
Every other sin a person commits is outside the body,
but the immoral person sins against his own body.
Do you not know that your body
is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you,
whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
For you have been purchased at a price.
Therefore glorify God in your body
Father’s homily:
He was visiting Las Vegas last week with a group of family members. While out walking he was approached by a young man who said to him, “Don’t you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?” Father is a smoker. He has tried to quit many times, unsuccessfully.
Anyway he went on to state that the man was correct about our bodies being temples of the Holy Spirit, but not so correct about smoking defiling the body, although he acknowledged that it is not good to smoke. However, smokers won’t go to hell because they smoke.
The defilement of the body being spoken about was impurity. That our bodies are not our own, they belong to God and how we need to guard against impure actions and thoughts.
He also went on about how the major problem today is that people treat each other as objects. And objects can be disposed of. A spouse can be disposed when she/he is no longer desired. A baby, like the ones we are going to baptize today (we had about 6 couples with their babies to be baptized today) which is the result of the great gift of sexuality can be disposed of because it isn’t the right time, or place or whatever.
Then probably thinking about what he had experienced in Las Vegas and on how people view Obama, he mentioned that we should pray especially for Obama and his family, that no harm will come to him and pray for guidance for him.
Father said many people are treating Obama as a “Messiah”. They talk about the great times ahead, and how he will solve all of America’s problems. Father said that certainly Bush has his weaknesses but so does Obama. He is not perfect and that this is reflected in his beliefs about life. He supports same-sex marriage. He supports the right to unrestricted abortion. Both are wrong and both treat persons as objects. He also mentioned about how these problems come about because of uncontrolled desires and that our lives need to be ordered properly.
It was awesome! He always makes a special point to hit some of this stuff when the church is chock full of visitors who come only for the baptisms etc.
Just thought you’d like to know!